Breaking News: A Closer Connection to the Maule Line - and Possibly George Manly's Father

Doug Manley sent  a detailed and credible spreadsheet of the data on the earliest Manleys including George Manly. In this spreadsheet, a father to George was listed. This is the first time I have seen that. The name of the father is given as Thomas Manley, b. 1610 in London, Westminster.

This struck me immediately because one of the two DNA candidates for the father of George Manly is named Thomas Maule, b. 1606.  The dates are close. (The disparity could be due to the difference between a birth date and a christening date.)

The other candidate is Georgius Maule himself, but he would be older. 1590 is given as one of his birth dates, but they vary from 1541 to 1580. However, the anglicized version of his name appears often in the George Manly line, not just for George, but down the line as well.

So if Thomas Maule = Thomas Manley, we have additional confirmation for a "Thomas" as father to our George Manly. I find this most encouraging.

More: in Doug's spreadsheet, Thomas is listed as coming from Westminster, London. Jim Maule writes about the Maule family  as coming from Buckingham, near present day Bletchley outside of London. And that they had homes there.  So Thomas Maule  and Thomas Manley share a common ancestral location in London and near London.

Doug's spreadsheet does not list a spouse for Thomas, but Thomas Maule is listed as having a spouse named Susana Throckmorton. If we can locate a record of a Thomas Manley with the same spouse, then Thomas Maule and Thomas Manley are very, very likely to be identical. I think the name variation (Maule/Manley) has complicated the search for George's father, but that the DNA linkage adds support for a "Thomas" as father of George.

A next step could be to search the data bases for a Thomas Manley of that approximate birth date and see whether any Throckmorton spouses turn up. That would certainly add support that Thomas Maule and Thomas Manley are the same and that this individual is the likely father of George Manly.

Here are portions  the lines from Doug's spreadsheet that relate to the Thomas in question: There are three, but the third has the fullest record. The spreadsheet indicates the source as familysearch.org along with additional sources.

The death place is listed for the 3rd Thomas as Bunbury, Cheshire. Cheshire, of course, is replete with Manleys, including a village named Manley.

Last Name	First Name	Birth/ Christen Date	A b t	B	C	Birth/Christen Location
Manly		1598
Manley	Thomas
Manley	Thomas	2-7-1610				Westminster, London, England

Cousins: How to Count Them: Mark and Me

Here are the relations that Mark sent me and which appear earlier: Lazarus is our common ancestor.

Mark's Side	Lazarus	Jim's Side
William	Brothers	John
George	1st Cousins	John
Martin	2nd Cousins	Ira
Benjamin	3rd Cousins	NT
Martin V	4th Cousins	Lewis N Manley Sr.
Ross Holms	5th Cousins	Lewis N Manley Jr.
Stephen Homer	6th Cousins	Jim
Leslie Earl	6th Cousin Once Removed	To Me
Mark	6th Cousin 2x Removed	To Me

Here is the chart that my Sister sent me showing the relationships. This helps. But I'm not sure I've nailed it. My conjecture: Mark and I are 6th cousins, twice removed.

Cousin Mark Manley

Family DNA actually found Mark for us, from the DNA and surname. His genetic distance is given at "4". I am still not sure what this means. It can be given in generations or time - I think.

But we have an additional "check" because Mark gave me his Manley family tree back to George Manly of Talaton. Here it is:

Donald Mark Manley (me) b. 1954 in LA

Leslie Earl "John" Manley (my father) b. 1906 in LA, d. 1975 in LA

Stephen Homer "Steve" Manly (my grandfather) b. 1885 in LA, d. 1958 in LA

Ross Holmes Manly (my great grandfather) b. 1855 in MO, d. 1927 in LA

Martin V. Manley (my 2nd great grandfather) b. 1834 in OH, d. after 1880 (in AR?)

Benjamin Smith Manley (my 3rd great grandfather) b. 1798 in MA, d. 1871 in OH

Martin Manley (my 4th great grandfather) b. 1770 in CT, d. 1844 in OH

George Manley (my 5th great grandfather) b. 1735 in CT, d. 1815 in MA

William Manley (my 6th great grandfather) b. 1703 in MA, d. 1788 in CT

Lazarus Manley (my 7th great grandfather) b. 1668 in England, d. 1747 in CT

George Manley (my 8th great grandfather) b. about 1624 in England

Note where Mark's tree branches. He comes from the line of Lazarus' older brother William (born in 1703 in MA). It's possible to show this link in most ancestry sites. I'm going to link it on WikiTree, but I should be able to link it on Family DNA as well and note it on Cathy Sockol's site.

Question. Does this make Mark my 1st cousin 6 times removed? Or my 6th cousin? :) Seriously!

I think we went through this when we visited the Carharts with Ann. 

Note that Mark's family moved to Los Angeles from Missouri some time after 1855. I wonder, though, whether Ross Holmes Manly knew any of our Manley's in Missouri. Granddad was born in the 1870's and went to Grinnell College in Iowa. NT Manley was living in Carthage, I think.  

Lazarus in the New World

That's our Lazarus, of course, son of George Manly of Talaton. It turns out that he was quite an enterprising young man after he had come to the US. He was a millwright, which meant that he designed and built mills. This involved scouting out choice spots to build them, buying the land, building the mill, getting it going, then selling it, and investing the proceeds in a new project. According to Colonial Ancestors, he did this no fewer than ten times!

Colonial Ancestors is a wonderfully-researched book on four colonial families, one of which is ours. It is available online as as a digital download here. Look on page 119 (in the book, not the PDF) and you see the beginning of the account of Lazarus. Here is a screen-save from page 120 showing the "salt box" house that Lazarus lived in in 1706.

The house is located in Southold, Long Island, New York. In particular, "It is situated at the west end of Southold on the corner
of Ackerly Pond Road and Lower Road," says the text on page 121. The legend below the images reads, "Courtesy The Suffolk Times and Joy Bear, the artist."

A Google Maps search of this location comes up with a dead ringer of this artistic rendering.

The foliage makes it hard to set up exactly the same vantage point as the image in the book, but the author attests, "Their charming little house, a saltbox, now with weathered gray shingles and white trim remains in use today as a
private home."

(And, when Googled, for sale. Anyone interested?)

That Link to the Khazahks

I was struck by this news item about the influx of Steppe culture into the mix of 5,000 - 8,000 years ago. My haplotype is L2. In the older notation: R1b1a2a1a1b3c1. On YSearch one can check who else has this same haplotype. Many families from Devonshire and Southern England shared this haplotype, but also many from present day Kazakhstan! I'm thinking that I'm seeing the actual consequences of what this news article reports.

What this means is that my family-member Kazakhstanis and I have a remote common ancestor. It would be fun to find out more out him.

Note: June 28, 2015 - It could be that our ancestors met in Belgium. See posting on this date.

DNA Test and Updates

It's been some time since I've posted. Genealogical insight seems to come in fits and starts. This past several weeks has seen quite a lot of activity which I want to summarize and record so that it does float away.

I've found three excellent (distant) cousins who are also excellent resources: James Edward Maule, Doug Manley, and Dr. Mark Manley.

James Edward Maule traces his ancestry back to Georgius Maule and beyond - to the Lairds of Panmure (Scotland). He is a lawyer in Pennsylvania  and has done a lot of genetic testing and is quite knowledgeable about the tests and their implications. His kit is #14125.

I learned about him in Cathy Manly Sockol's  "Manly/Manley Family Tree DNA Project." This project supports Family Tree DNA with the "Manley/Manly/Munley" (and more) surname projects. There are many of them. I think "Maule" is a varient of "Manley" along with "Mawley," "Mawle" and several others.

We've been emailing back and forth in recent weeks, especially in regard to the DNA connection that exists between the Maule family and the Manley family. That connection is discussed here. In particular, notice Cathy Sockol's reply to my question of May 11, 2011. She affirms a genetic  connection between the Maule's and Manley's. She puts it at 325 years to the most recent common ancestor (Georgius, or his son Thomas). It's more, but we are talking about a "ballpark" figure.

Jim Maule on the other hand suggested that while the genetic distance was plausible, the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) was much more remote, perhaps as remote as 2,500 years ago. I inclined initially to Cathy's optimistic interpretation, but I've not been able to replicate it. I also note that the intersection on the charts does not fall on a colored cell, indicating a close (or closer) DNA connection. Also, there are individuals from Kazakhstan who share the same (or very similar) haplotype to mine and to Jim Maule's "almost-similar" haplotype. This suggests a more distant remote common ancestor.